r/WhitePeopleTwitter 5d ago

‘Murica

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82k Upvotes

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u/T00Bytoon 4d ago

You should see how Japanese schools don’t teach about their activities in WW2

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u/Mingusto 4d ago

And how Turks view the Armenian genocide

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u/sumaclover 4d ago

HEY! Armenian genocide exists to the US only if the sitting president is pissed off at the Turkish president!

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u/YouLookGoodInASmile 4d ago

excuse me isnt that

every single genocide committed by people ever?

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u/Anthonyrrxd 4d ago

dont quote me but isnt Germany very good about teaching their history of the holocaust?

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u/2_7182818 4d ago

A good German friend of mine brought this up once when discussing our various national shames. He was baffled that people still have Confederate flags and offered all of Germany’s effort to teach about the Holocaust, outlawing Nazi symbols, etc. as an example. (On a not unrelated note, in my experience Europeans are generally baffled by the extremely small number of limitations to the 1st Amendment.)

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u/TheChartreuseKnight 4d ago

Everyone is baffled by Americans

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u/2_7182818 4d ago

It’s true; even Americans are baffled by other Americans.

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u/YouLookGoodInASmile 4d ago

yeah i think so, im pretty sure its illegal to deny it there

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u/Jukra- 4d ago

Yep Holocaustleugnung is actually a felony here.

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u/GiveMeDogeFFS 4d ago

You've got to love the Germans, they've even made their morality efficient.

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u/theBrineySeaMan 4d ago

I admire them more for the fact there's a word for everything, it's just 10+ letters long. What's that? You only sleep in on the thirteenth of the month? Oh, you're a driesenschleepndraft.

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u/Kaeptn_Iglu 4d ago

Germany also has even If it only was recently finally acknowledged the genocide in the German Colonies.

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u/BigMik_PL 4d ago

Germans had no choice but to admit theirs.

Russians go back and forth though.

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u/LoadOfBarnacles07 4d ago

ITT: Governments kinda suck ngl

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u/PlantainFar2744 4d ago

Im not very knowledgeable on the Armenian genocide but were the turks the ones committing the genocide and if so dont they look at the genocide as a accomplishment?

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u/Mingusto 4d ago

Many hardline nationalist Turks won’t acknowledge that anything even happened and will dismiss any notion of wrongdoings as imperialist propaganda or falsified stories. They killed at least 600.000 men, women and children because they blamed them for a military loss. It also had a lot to do with ingrained hatred and cultural racism amongst Turks against Armenians.

The Armenians also did bad things, but no one deserves a genocide, and not acknowledging that it happened won’t help anyone

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u/PlantainFar2744 4d ago

Ah yes racism the thing that fuels every genocide

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u/Mingusto 4d ago

Wiki for you here if you want to read about one of the greatest tragedies in human history. You’ll read accounts of elderly forced on death marches in to the desert only to be raped and mutilated along the way. Disgusting what we humans can do to each other

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u/The-Dank-Tower 4d ago

“It didn’t happen but it should have” seems to be a common response to that rather disgustingly

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u/human-no560 4d ago

It’s how you know it happened

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u/hamakabi 4d ago

This is exactly the same narrative that comes out if you press people who downplay the Holocaust numbers.

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u/The-Dank-Tower 4d ago

Yeah. They also blame supply lines instead of gas chambers. Imagine denying possibly the most completely documented war crime ever. Just insane.

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u/UnluckyHorseman 4d ago

Absolutely. Holocaust deniers love to pretend like it's not about them hating/fearing Jews, but if you press them you find out that it unquestionably is.

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u/bashyourscript 4d ago

Not taking away from the Armenian genocide. But, the Japanese literally committed 4-5 genocides during WW2.

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u/Mingusto 4d ago

Many historians have mentioned the Armenian genocide as the worst modern example of a genocide since Leopolds Congo and before the Holocaust. Several millennia of culture disappeared.

I’m not in business of quantifying what’s worse. The Japanese did horrible things to other humans and the Turks did equally horrible things. IMHO there really isn’t much to gain from arguing about who is the worst in this respect; what do we measure it as? Body count? Cultures destroyed? Hearts destroyed? It can’t be measured and is subjective what holds the most meaning. We must just learn from what happened and make sure it doesn’t happen again to others. There isn’t much else to take from such horrible events. But that’s just my two cents

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u/NugNug2 4d ago

Yea Korea and Indonesia didn't deserve those atrocities committed against them

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u/T00Bytoon 4d ago

Neither did the Philippines

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u/UnreadyJam 4d ago

Neither the Chinese, half a million people died in the Nanking Massacre

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u/T00Bytoon 4d ago

Heard about that. Imperial Japanese soldiers were monsters back then

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u/greybeard_arr 4d ago

I tried reading The Rape of Nanking a few years ago. It was utterly depressing. I read about 1/3 of the book before I couldn’t take anymore. Being faced with how devastatingly and intentionally cruel the Japanese were became too much for me.

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u/Archinaught 4d ago

Terrifying what happens when fascism takes over a society that builds up the value of warriors/combat and National identity

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u/kultureisrandy 4d ago

The images of babies being held up on bayonets isn't something you can be prepared for

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u/greybeard_arr 4d ago

Fathers being forced to rape their own daughters in front of their family...

So many of the actions were wildly over-the-top animalistic brutality. But that seemed to me to fall as even more depraved and terrible, if such a thing is truly possible, than the rest.

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u/manza5012 4d ago

My 10th grade teacher showed us that leaked film reel that some American or foreigner smuggled out. Videos of mutilated people and dead bodies, etc

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u/hamburgl4r 4d ago

Read about "Unit 731"

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u/Thnewkid 4d ago

China was the Soviet Union of the pacific war. They absorbed the brunt of casualties in that conflict as the Soviets had in Europe.

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u/docmedic 4d ago edited 4d ago

I don't think any civilians did.

Heck, even today we seem to think our soldiers don't deserve atrocities committed against them... well they kind of do, they're soldiers, just as we think it's fair game against other soldiers/combatants.

War sucks, and it's repugnant to be a pro-war "realist." But there's even propaganda in how we taught WWII, that we can't appease people. No, the lesson we should have learned was we shouldn't do shit like Treaty of Versailles.

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u/Offduty_shill 4d ago

.....are you implying that china did? Cause they did a lot of fucked up shit there too, and pretty every country they occupied at the time.

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u/Lucifers_Tits 4d ago

Even how the US schools teach about most of WW2 is pretty glossed over tbh. I've been listening to Hardcore History's show on WW2 in the pacific and the amount of detail he goes into about the horrors of war is something I never even came close to learning about in school. I did well in History class too.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/ski-person 4d ago

Also nothing about the 20 million dead Chinese people, the vast majority of which were civilians

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u/ChadMcbain 4d ago

Rape of Nanking

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u/lamewoodworker 4d ago edited 4d ago

The rape isn't even the worst part of that war crime.

Anyone who hasn't heard about this and is binging it right now.

Prepare to have the rest of your day ruined.

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u/shade990 4d ago

The wikipedia page on that is probably the most fucked up thing I have ever read. Inconceivable evil.

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u/Automatic-Worker-420 4d ago

You mean like those Yemeni civilians that we’ve been killing for the last 8 years.

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u/Calmbat 4d ago edited 4d ago

Not to take away from this at all but when I went to the Holocaust museum in LA the numbers that got me the most were not the Millions in Poland etc but one country that had only a single digit number of people killed. In the grand scheme of things that many people is still not good, but isn't something History will usually remember. For a long time I really had no idea why this bothered me so much. I was even really bothered by the fact I remembered the number for several years after my visit. I have no idea why but reading your comment made me realize that it wasn't just how tangible a single digit number is, but the fact that those people easily could have been lost to history and for all we know maybe some people have been forgotten. It was probably a person turning their neighbor in or something like that, and it easily could have been something that was forgotten when just a few perpetrators died. Human life gets snuffed out by other humans all the time and on a certain level you have to harden yourself from hearing about murders and wars on the news or else you will always be sad. It really is something to be sad about. Each of us have our own hopes, dreams, fears etc. We hopefully all experience love, but sadly some people will die from the hate of others. War is often a fight between people who don't hate each other instead of the people in power whose greed makes them ignore human life. Genocide is often started by people who use it as a tool to control and might not even feel hatred towards that group, but are willing to stir it up to unite others against them or to force people to give up fighting back etc.

I bet everyone in the world can find common ground with every single other person past, present, and future. Even with a language barrier humans are really good at communicating with each other if we want to. I really wish more people would try to reach out to the people they feel the least connected to.

edit: I think the country was Lithuania or Estonia not 100% though it was around 10 years ago I went. New research was done either way and so I don't think those numbers are accurate anymore anyways.

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u/HenryMorgansWeedMan 4d ago

The USSR was the backbone in stopping the Nazis. The other European nations had some part in it, especially the British and then the Polish, but the Soviets were by far the biggest part of why Nazi Germany fell.

And what's crazy is that pretty much everyone in the command there knew that the US logistics made it possible. US steel, oil, trucks, clothing and food prevented millions more Soviets from dying, even falling entirely. But without the Soviets, Europe would have fallen and the US would have been faced with a 2 front war, without any friendly take off point within Europe, except maybe Iceland. Without the Soviets, the UK would have fallen and with it, the US ability to invade Europe.

Both were pivotal in saving Europe. But after the war, neither acknowledged that they needed the other.

Instead, all we get is propaganda.

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u/DjDrowsyBear 4d ago

Honestly, at this point, I am tired of the arguing over who did the most in WWII. Too many people take it way too far and pretend that Us/Uk/USSR could have fought off Germany single handedly and that was just never going to happen. It required all three, full stop.

That being said, far too many people, Americans especially, don't give nearly enough credit to the incredible amount of blood lost by the Soviets.

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u/forceless_jedi 4d ago

Instead, all we get is propaganda.

Someone needs to write one of those "alternate history" fictions, where instead of the tired troupe of "wHaT iF NaZIs wOn!!?!!" it's about US and USSR properly forming a friendship and becoming the United States of Soviet Republic to… idk fight the lizard people from Mars or something.

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u/HenryMorgansWeedMan 4d ago edited 4d ago

I mean, if Europe had embraced fascism with the UK, USSR and US banding together and the Axis taking over the UK and the USSR forced further back, then the US possibly would have had to use the Pacific and especially Alaska to bring supplies to them and soldiers would have soon followed.

The war could have been longer and the US and USSR would have had to band together against Japan to preserve the supply lines, with multiple nuclear bombs dropped on them.

The Germans do (somehow) find a way to make an H bomb and there is a stalemate between the Allies and Axis powers.

The US moves towards more social movements and the USSR towards more democratic ideas, but maintains its authoritarianism while the threat of fascism looms over.

Europe becomes extremely paranoid as they're trapped between the 2 allied superpowers and tries to get China on its side, which might happen as the Japanese troops are forced to retreat in order to defend the homeland, which ends communist support in China and it embraces fascism as they don't want Soviet or American troops on Chinese soil.

The US and USSR build a close relationship with a well regulated, semi-nationalized economy and a decent social system, but due to the size of both countries and extreme defense budgets, it won't be nearly enough.

A new cold war arises and Germany and the US being the only nuclear capable nations, but the US works with the Soviets on building their own. This prompts Germany to provide nuclear weapons to China through the Middle East and India, which is neutral, but under the influence of Germany.

This probably would have never happened, as there are way too many uncertainties and most of the stuff I just wrote makes no sense. Like why would China align itself with Europe? Why wouldn't India aligh itself with the USSR and US after decades of colonial rule by the British?

But also, Europe would have starved being stuck between the USSR in the east and the US controling large parts of the Atlantic. Without US support, Europe would simply not be able to maintain itself, but then again, with massive amounts of slave labor and far less damage to the countries there, perhaps it could have been a powerhouse, capable of keeping the US at bay with huge amounts of submarines and ships, while airplanes and tanks guarded the Eastern border.

I like to think about the US/USSR as allies Vs Europe in a cold war, but it would rely on the US being unable to do much in the Atlantic. It would probably also mean they'd be able to take Japan with the help of Soviets relatively easily and boost supplies between those 2 countries incredibly much. Although Siberia would have proved difficult for the Americans to get through to the front lines, especially if given the same treatment as the Soviets. But then again, the Soviets would have been able to focus near solely on war and not have to produce much food, as the US would be their bread basket.

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u/Deepspacesquid 4d ago edited 4d ago

The difference being the greatest critics of America are Americans. While in China, people won't tell you what day it is on the anniversary of tiananmen square massacre... The issue being that most Americans learned about Tulsa race massacre from HBOs watchman (myself included)

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u/JimboBillyBobJustis 4d ago

See back when I was going to school..the Tulsa Massacre was called a "riot" and we had to learn about it in Jr High civics/history class.

We also learned about "The Trail of Tears".

The internment of Japanese-American's during WW II and alot of other crappy shit we did throughout history

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u/Illusive_Man 4d ago

We learned about trail of tears, briefly mentioned internment camps, and never mentioned the Tulsa massacre

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u/IndigoGrunt 4d ago

Or the denial of Korean comfort woman, usually the far right Japanese conservatives.

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u/richmomz 4d ago

It actually goes further than that - they just kind of pretend like it never happened. You'd be surprised how many younger people literally know nothing about what happened other than "there was a war" and "it went badly" and occasionally "it was sorta our fault too."

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u/shortygriz 4d ago

they taught us about the. trail of tears and how natives were forced to adopt a white lifestyle, and that was Tennessee, they conveniently left out a lot about slavery and the civil war though

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u/enddream 4d ago

Also, Americans are allowed to post the above tweet.

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u/shrubs311 4d ago

dumbass on twitter: china has censored a horrible massacre they had for over 30 year, but look, american children think we didn't hurt the natives!

even though literally every highschooler knows it

and also you can literally shout it online and in the streets. go shout "tianmen square massacre happened" in china and tell me how long you last, twitter moron from the op

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u/Betasheets 4d ago

Right? Like no shit we arent gonna teach 3rd graders that a lot of people (mostly indians) were slaughtered when they are tracing out their turkey hands for Thanksgiving.

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u/Lizzard0 4d ago

Right? I just think OP didn’t pay attention in school

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u/peon2 4d ago

Yeah the "Columbus came to America and the Native Americans taught them how to raise maize" is the 1st grade education.

Once we are old enough to appropriately be taught about rape, murder, and genocide, it is taught.

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u/jumpbreak5 4d ago

I'm so tired of seeing this posted here every few months. They teach that to children because we don't ask teachers to explain genocide to toddlers.

The US has plenty of problems with its government and education system, but our freedoms of press and speech are incomparably more free than China right now.

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u/alma_perdida 4d ago

How many times is reddit going to keep posting this fucking meme

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u/Chromie149 4d ago

I dunno if it’s different in other states but yes. In elementary school they don’t teach about all of the bloodshed that happened. They give us the corn version. In high school/middle school they go further into detail. I’m confused about why I keep hearing about us hiding the truth. Is it really different in other places in the US?

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u/Shashank329 4d ago

In both Arkansas and texas, we learned about the genocide pretty thoroughly

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u/coltrain61 4d ago

I feel like in Indiana we got to the trail of tears in like 4th grade.

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u/PhaseThin1331 4d ago

Same in maine

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u/Freedom_DIY 4d ago

Maine, can confirm. Heard all about it, 25 years ago.

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u/Dreams-in-Aether 4d ago

Can confirm in VA. I even vaguely remember what the drawings for the trail of tears looked like in the textbook.

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u/theow593 4d ago

It's in the 5th grade curriculum in Florida. Or at least it was until it was seemingly banned today

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u/Snipowl 4d ago

I grew up as an army brat going to DoDEA schools, they make sure that the kids are taught about how the US was born from bloodshed

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u/TheTangerine101 4d ago

Some with the Air Force. I started hearing about it in 3rd grade.

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u/BahaFury 4d ago

Learned in Alabama as well.

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u/gruniite 4d ago

And Wisconsin

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u/billyreamsjr 4d ago

From Arkansas. It’s a lot of Indians here. We KNOW the truth…

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u/Past-Inspector-1871 4d ago

Trail of tears man, we know

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u/Cadien18 4d ago

Yeah, can second this for Texas. Had extensive (as compared to other topics) education about slavery and native forced relocation/killing. America’s - and my state’s - historical shame was front-and-center for my education.

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u/austin101123 4d ago edited 4d ago

Kentucky here, learned all about bad treatment of natives and slaves. Small pox blankets, countless wars, trail of tears, slave trade, slave breeding and rape, etc.

I had to watch roots in middle school. Oddly enough we watched in my math class though, my middle school sometimes did stuff like that. 8th grade math had roots for a week or two, 7th grade history/geography had personal finance for a month.

Some history was in English classes too, which makes sense. Might as well read anne frank and ellie wiesel in english class (called language arts).

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u/AyyMVP 4d ago

That’s what I’m saying. I’m seriously wondering if people actually went to school in this country lol my schools gradually taught more and more about it as we grew up.

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u/tactics14 4d ago

It's just reddit being reddit. Even if China told its full history it would likely have a watered down version for elementary aged kids too

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u/JollyGreen615 4d ago

Yeah idk what these people are smoking. We are 100% taught about the genocide and horrible treatment of native Americans. We just don’t teach it to literal 9 year olds

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u/SanjiSasuke 4d ago

That's the issue. Most of thr people here are the 9-year olds.

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u/wellshire 4d ago

I'm 9 and a half

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u/Dr_Dang 4d ago

My name's Jared, I'm 23, and I never fucking learned how to read.

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u/KingBevins 4d ago

Don’t you see. These were the kids that didn’t pay attention in class then learned it from a YouTube video later in life.

Therefore they didn’t teach it to me in school because I didn’t listen.

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u/Sean951 4d ago

That's 90% of "why didn't I learn this in school?!?" posts, from taxes on to legal documents.

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u/JoshAllenforMessiah 4d ago

Also, most of them are things you can learn in under an hour from dozens of free resources.

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u/ghostcaurd 4d ago

Na I learned about it. Trail of tears, small pox blankets and such. Also the difference is that we aren't going to jail for 5 years or disappeared for talking about it.

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u/alexmikli 4d ago

Also we don't censor people who try to Google about atrocities against Indians.

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u/Inside_Commercial 4d ago

Funny how all these positively upvoted "yeah I learned about it all" posts are all automatically hidden while scrolling down.

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u/YeetOrYeeted 4d ago

i live in the midwest and have friends in several other states and from what i’ve been told, and what i experienced, it’s exactly like you’re saying. nice corn stories for the younger kids and more serious and real history for the older ones.

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u/coffeeblack85 4d ago

Yeah lol my US history class was pretty all about how much bullshit and fucked up things America did

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u/ThatAltAccount99 4d ago

Nahh it's like that from all over, reddit just likes shitting on the U.S.

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u/71daysWithoutWeed 4d ago

6th grade— junior high gloves came off in California. Dutch-Slave trade, trail of tears, smallpox blankets, Japanese internment camps. You can even take classes about it in college and really go in depth. Lol nice try China..

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u/TheTrollisStrong 4d ago

No it’s not. People either don’t pay attention in school or they know ‘Murica’ memes are easy karma points.

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u/Airbornequalified 4d ago

Because

  1. People didn’t pay attention in middle and high school

  2. Gets more likes if they pretend that the majority of the US doesn’t acknowledge atrocities

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u/External-Gas4351 4d ago

Yep, they don’t teach small children about atrocities because well they are very young. As we get older we learn more and more details about the bad things. Like the trail of tears.

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u/Daefyr_Knight 4d ago

Because people on Reddit don’t pay attention in class. I’ve seen my old classmates post on Facebook about how school didn’t teach us about certain things even though I specifically remember learning about it in school.

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u/Roadwarriordude 4d ago edited 4d ago

I think its just dumbfucks who only remember elementary school. I dont think I've ever met anyone who wasn't taught about the native American genocide. I'd be surprised if anyone above the bottom 5% hasn't heard of the trail of tears.

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u/Inside_Commercial 4d ago

It's not different in any school I've ever attended or heard about. The OP is making a really really dumb argument by trying to liken government censorship in China (literally forbidden information that adults are not allowed to discuss) to American elementary schools choosing to wait until the 7 year olds are a little older to start teaching them what genocide.

It's a bad argument that falls apart the minute you scrutinize it.

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u/King_Louis_X 4d ago

Pennsylvanian checking in to say we learned pretty much all of it, multiple times too

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u/kcox1980 4d ago

This shit gets posted every couple of months. No, the American education system absolutely does NOT sugarcoat the brutality of what happened before we were a developed nation

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u/KillNyetheSilenceGuy 4d ago

Because "America Bad" is a great way to farm karma on reddit.

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u/candlecrusher 4d ago edited 4d ago

I think this is pretty much how it always goes. As you get older you are given more and more information.

The only real difference is that after grade 10 (at least for us in Ontario), history becomes an elective. Past high school, it's entirely up to the individual what they want to learn about, if anything at all.

While I do think it's important for everyone to know about these events, I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to go into extreme detail about these atrocities to 15 year olds.

We, for example, were taught about residential schools. How young natives were taken from their families, beaten, stripped of their language and culture, but weren't taught in depth about the sexual abuse or the rest of the more disturbing details.

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u/GoodTasteIsGood 4d ago

People are trying to diminish crimes by doing whataboutism to America. This particular example is just inaccurate. The genocide of native americans is literally in our textbooks.

America has done some terrible things, still does. But China is waaaaay further down on the spectrum towards authoritarianism. Its not even comparable.

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u/Kuroblondchi 4d ago

Right what do they want us to do teach a bunch of first graders about genocide

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u/Straightup32 4d ago

I don’t know where this comes from but I sure as hell learned about the invasion on American Indian tribes in school. Maybe not in first grade because I had a tenuous grasp on death but they got around to teaching it for sure

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u/Dittany_Kitteny 4d ago

In third grade we all had to choose a Mission in California to write a report on. Definitely learned about the horrors of the system then. We read Island of Blue Dolphins which is pretty brutal as well. We for SURE learned about the trail of tears in high school.

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u/newyne 4d ago

Oh! Island of the Blue Dolphins! I LOVED that book as a kid! I was actually thinking about it recently, when someone asked me if I knew what abalone was (that was the first place I saw the word).

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u/SenorBeef 4d ago

Yes, this is dumb. They're comparing something we tell to little kids about the origin of Thanksgiving but teach them the real story when they're older to a Chinese policy of censorship that would jail or torture you if you talked about the truth.

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u/Awful-Cleric 4d ago

Even in elementary school, I learned about how Europeans treated natives. They taught us that the natives taught pilgrims to grow corn, but they also taught us that the pilgrims slaughtered their comrades some time after the first Thanksgiving.

That's obviously not the whole story, but it was enough to paint a vivid image in my young mind. I was never under any impression that Christopher Columbus or any colonizer was a good person.

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u/Straightup32 4d ago

Honestly, Reddit is filled with xenophobics. It seems like every other post is an America Bash session. And 99 percent of it is either heavily distorted or flat out wrong.

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u/booboothechicken 4d ago

insert Drew Carrey meme “Welcome to Reddit, where everything is overblown and the facts don’t matter.”

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u/Straightup32 4d ago

For real though. If it sounds good then go with it. That should be Reddit’s motto lol.

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u/IAmHairyChicken 4d ago edited 4d ago

It’s like the constantly reposted tweet about how Spain has 32 hour work weeks and they legalized weed and therefore is better than the US and all the comments by Spaniards saying that it’s bullshit are downvoted to oblivion because it doesn’t fit the narrative

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u/Straightup32 4d ago

Lmao, I’ve only seen that post about a hundred times and you hit the nail on the head.

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u/I_choose_not_to_run 4d ago

But every citizen of the UK gets 3 months of vacation every year!!!!!!

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u/Ambitious-Scientist 4d ago edited 4d ago

In Florida we had a whole chapter talking just about Seminole tribes and the other tribes in Florida and the map of the tribal lands, and went over how the conquistadors murdered everyone and how Florida played a large role in the slave trades. That same semester we went over the small Florida history about oil and sugar cane being a crop.

Did they do well about sex sex ed and the transgressions of big sugar, oil and Disney? No. Those should have been taught too in that same semester.

This happened in the 90s.

Edit to throw in there they also went over the rosewood murders briefly. Like maybe a page. It wasn’t very touched on and it should have been talking about it how majorly segregated Florida was.

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u/Comfortable_Plate351 4d ago

I'm 14 and we do know that we had battles of native Americans but they don't really go into depth about the relocations and the trail of tears. I feel like it largely depends on where you live and if you live near these reservations.

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u/Whooshed_me 4d ago

To be fair my school didn't teach us about Trail of tears and the rest of the god awful shit like fake treaties and ever moving goalposts until highschool. Not saying it's right but they were probably worried about maturity levels? At least it sounds like they are hinting at the negatives to you already

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u/GreatswordIsGreat 4d ago

Weird because I remember learning a lot about the genocide of Native Americans by colonists in history classes

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u/LeonidasSpacemanMD 4d ago

Also we are freely talking about it on the internet without fear of censorship or worse

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u/w33b2 4d ago

That’s not what we are taught tho

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u/dragon_bacon 4d ago

And we're openly talking about it with no repercussions. And these events are a few hundred years apart. Acting like these are the exact is fucking stupid.

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u/infinitude 4d ago

Yeah we don’t arrest people for teaching the truth about it though…

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u/guydud3bro 4d ago

Yeah. We learn about the mistreatment of Native Americans in school and it's not illegal to discuss it anywhere. I mean, we're talking about it right now on an American website...there's no censorship. Good luck discussing Tiananmen Square openly on Chinese social media.

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u/SenorBeef 4d ago

One is a simple story we used to tell little kids, but the real truth was taught as they got older. The other is an active cenorship campaign that would land you in jail or worse if you talked about it openly. These are not comparable.

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u/ChickenTenderDiddler 4d ago

simple story we used to tell little kids

I really wonder what these people want sometimes. Yes we need to teach students about what we have done as a country, but I don't think 2nd grade is a great time to just slam the hammer on kids of what we did to native americans.

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u/DopamineBuster 4d ago

Thank you! False equivalences like this piss me off so much.

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u/BigGman-55 4d ago

I’m a 10th grade student… in school I’ve learned through my teachers ab the trail of tears and Native American punishment/torture/assimilation… y’all act like we don’t learn anything in school. Is there more we could learn, absolutely, but we do learn enough

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u/GoodHotdogs 4d ago

Exactly. The fact that Americans have the knowledge and ability to post about our supposed lack of knowledge and ability disproves their own statement.

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u/JAWISH 4d ago

90% of these meme are made by people who didn't pay attention in history class.

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u/kendred3 4d ago

This is kinda peak whataboutism.

Note that I'm not saying that US schools shouldn't do a better job of teaching the atrocities in US history by its government and people. Just saying that the fact that in China, no one can speak or learn about Tiananmen Square - something that happened 30 years ago - to the fact that children are taught a storybook version of something 400 years ago and subsequently learn a fuller version later in school, doesn't really make for a fair comparison.

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u/crownebeach 4d ago

Yeah, like, US public education failures notwithstanding, we don’t ~disappear~ people who discuss the harms of colonization.

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u/PranavKat 4d ago

It’s misleading because the rubbish they teach elementary kids about Thanksgiving, is thought properly when the kids in middle and high school

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u/morgaina 4d ago

Nuance, yo. Historical revisionism is a thing here but it isn't state censorship brutally enforced by law. The two are not the same.

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u/richmomz 4d ago

This - some schools do a good job of teaching what really happened but it varies by jurisdiction (the Federal government doesn't lord over the whole education system in the US like some people think - it's mostly governed at the state and local level).

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u/cuddlepwince 4d ago

One happened hundreds of years ago and one happened in the 1980s. Are we defending China now?

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u/Bottle_Gnome 4d ago

A couple things. First off there is a difference between actively censoring information, and having shitty schools. Secondly it really depends on the schools. I definitely learned about the genocide of the natives. I did straight up NC history in highschool and it talked about it a lot.

We also don't really teach about the Korean War, The Spanish-American War, etc etc.

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u/Skeptical_Romulan 4d ago

Not to mention, the whole "indians taught them to grow corn" was what's told to kindergarteners. Native American genocide comes later in the curriculum.

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u/franzji 4d ago

Yeah, I learned about mistreatment of Native Americans but not when I was in 2nd grade lol.

Reminds me of a story. I went to a family museum with my friend and his girlfriend, and she was complaining that the museum was white washing their civil rights section because they didn't show real photo of lynchings on the walls.

I was like... They aren't going to show corpses in a family museum...

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u/darkwingg 4d ago

I think that you can't really compare this. While not living in the US (German here, and yes I learned about the Holocaust almost every schoolyear) I think that you don't get put in prison just for saying that the genocide against native Americans exists. In China you literary dissapear when you talk about it. Really not comparable to each other.

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u/Mrchristopherrr 4d ago

But have you considered America bad?

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u/seancookie101 4d ago

It's an even worse comparison when the truth is that we learned about the atrocities that the US did to the Native Americans in school.

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u/SmashinCetacean 4d ago

Every government in the world: Let’s point out the transgressions of other nations while ignoring our own.

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u/Senundo 4d ago

Except for Germany. There was no class we didn't talk about the holocaust at least once. The chemistry lesson was a bit weird tho

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u/katfooood 4d ago

can back this one up

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u/velocity010 4d ago

Germany is leading the way in taking responsibility and the rest of the world still goes "lol Nazis" at them.

It's sad to see that sticking your head in the mud and pretending it didn't happen is still the more successful strategy compared to owning up to your mistakes and learning from them.

Humans are assholes and history is written by the victors.

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u/SmashinCetacean 4d ago

Yikes, I can only imagine.

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u/PabloO3O 4d ago

Gotta chime in to confirm this was also allways very relevant during the whole school.

In my elementary school we had a lot of talk about war just because there were children straight out of the war zone into your classroom. I think it is very important to start very early, children are smarter then we think :-)

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u/crack_masta 4d ago

“The American Bison were hunted into extinction, that’s why we need conservation.” 🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼

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u/gehbfuggju 4d ago

I don't know the correct version of this one...

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u/DarthSanity 4d ago

“The US govt hunted the bison to near extinction to force the plains Indians back in to reservations. Didn’t harvest the meat or the hides, just left thousands of carcasses to rot. The more conspiracy-minded add that both had to go to make way for railroads”

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u/HartPlays 4d ago

Can you link source? I believe you but I’d like to read more about that

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u/linedout 4d ago

Bison where intentionally eradicated in order to hurt the plains Indians where dependent on them. It was a form of starvation.

There is a scene in Deadman where a train stops and everyone just start killing Buffalo and then it moves on leaving all the corpses.

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u/Skeetthecleet 4d ago

Well it was less they hunted them and more they just shot them for shit and gigs

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u/TheCheesymaster 4d ago

Not just for fun, the bisin herds were a major food source for many native Americans. It was part of the genocide

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u/jljboucher 4d ago

“And gave them land.”

Slaves: “they helped on the plantations”.

My kid’s 4th grade text book in 2019 in Nevada said this garbage! 🤬

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u/Tiabb 4d ago edited 4d ago

"the slaves were actually very happy because they were provided homes and food by the plantation owners which they wouldn't have had otherwise and they were treated very well"

"The civil war was about states rights"

Shit my parents tried to peddle me while claiming they're the farthest from racist that a person can be. They grew up in the 60s in the south so I think those views were leftovers from the southern education system at that time. The daughter's of the south were pretty damn effective at spinning the civil war.

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u/thevitaphonequeen 4d ago

Dare you to look up the kids’ book A Birthday Cake for George Washington (which thankfully wasn’t in print for long).

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u/SarsCovie2 4d ago

A Birthday Cake for George Washington

https://www.amazon.com/Birthday-Cake-George-Washington/dp/0545538238

"No matter how delicious the president's cake turns out to be, Delia and Papa will not taste the sweetness of freedom." Dang!

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u/Forest_of_Mirrors 4d ago

Louis-Philippe, the future king of France, visited Mount Vernon in the spring of 1797. According to his April 5 diary entry:
The general's cook ran away, being now in Philadelphia, and left a little daughter of six at Mount Vernon. Beaudoin ventured that the little girl must be deeply upset that she would never see her father again; she answered, "Oh! Sir, I am very glad, because he is free now."[1]
Hercules remained in hiding. In January 1798, the former President's house steward, Frederick Kitt, informed Washington that the fugitive was living in Philadelphia:
Since your departure I have been making distant enquiries about Herculas but did not till about four weeks ago hear anything of him and that was only that [he] was in town neither do I yet know where he is, and that it will be very difficult to find out in the secret manner necessary to be observed on the occasion.[17]
The 1799 Mount Vernon Slave Census listed 124 enslaved Africans owned by Washington and 153 "dower" slaves owned by Martha Washington's family.[18] Washington's 1799 Will instructed that his slaves be freed upon Martha's death.[19] Washington died on December 14, 1799. At Martha Washington's request, the three executors of Washington's Estate freed her late husband's slaves on January 1, 1801. It is possible that Hercules did not know he had been manumitted, and legally was no longer a fugitive. In a December 15, 1801, letter, Martha Washington indicated that she had learned that Hercules, by then legally free, was living in New York City.[20] Nothing more is known of his whereabouts or life in freedom.

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u/woodscradle 4d ago

Was reading some reviews and came across an interesting take:

…Is it EVER appropriate to depict the master-slave relationship in anything other than its most brutal aspects? Was there ANY way to tell this story to children that would have passed muster with the critics and allowed the book to avoid Scholastic's ban hammer? In today's political and racial climate, I don't think so. The zero-sum game of the current polity doesn't allow for complexity or nuance. It doesn't allow for great but flawed men to continue to be heroes when they participate in an economic system that deprives their fellow human beings of freedom. It doesn't allow a man who yearns for his freedom, even to the point of running away, to nevertheless take pride in being "the first celebrity chef in America"…

I’m curious how you’d respond to this person

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u/OrphicDionysus 4d ago

I got taught all of the same in schools in virginia. Eventually got a ride to a private school on D.C. and got my mind blown figuring out how much bullshit i would have internalized if i had stayed in VA

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u/coltrain61 4d ago

A state's right to what? is a great follow up to the civil war statement.

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u/circasomnia 4d ago

That's pretty crazy. I was taught this stuff in grade school over a decade ago and both American slavery and the Native American genocide were not downplayed. Raised in CA.

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u/jljboucher 4d ago

My elementary school years were in NY and my middle school years in AZ, was not taught this white-washed bullshit either so my kids definitely won’t be fooled.

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u/1Fower 4d ago

Same. I grew up in California and was taught in school about the Trail of Tears, the cruelty in the Missions, the Schools for Indigenous children, the virtual genocide of the California Indians during the Gold rush, and this was all in grade school. In high school, we had to read Frederick Douglas book twice, once in history and the other in English. We also had to read malcom x in history.

Hell even the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was covered in the textbook. I have no idea of how so many students don’t know these basic facts, some of those people I was in class with. Just cuz you didn’t pay attention doesn’t mean you weren’t taught

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u/pmaurant 4d ago

A 4th grade text book. Not a middle school or Highschool textbook.

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u/MoirasPurpleOrb 4d ago

Thats what I was gonna say, still not great, but it is a difficult subject to teach a 4th grader.

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u/TheBlueEyed 4d ago

There's nothing wrong with introducing them to the history in a softer way and then the harsher truth when they're older. This post is dumb.

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u/steroid_pc_principal 4d ago

This would be true if your education ended in kindergarten. Stay in school my friend.

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u/The_Confirminator 4d ago

Tbf saying that the indians were ravaged by disease, genocided by colonists, and the survivors were forced to move or integrate in Anglo-European society is not really a great thing to tell preschoolers trying to celebrate a holiday.

Anyone that's taken an APUSHistory class knows pretty much all the bad stuff the US did (including the Tulsa Massacre), and at least at my school, slavery was taught in 2nd grade with a Harriet Tubman book.

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u/NugNug2 4d ago

Idk abt yall but AP History courses are taught all over the US and they dont sugarcoat stuff like that

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u/spartyftw 4d ago

The trail of tears is widely taunt in the US curriculum

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u/xEvil_Deadx 4d ago

Karma whore. This post is plain inaccurate. America is far from perfect but we learned a ton about the atrocities committed against Native Americans in Elementary School, Middle School, and High School here in Missouri and I know other states teach this as well. Most Americans are quite aware of how fucked up what we did to the Natives was. The CCP on the other hand can suck a fat cock for how much they lie and try to cover up shit.

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u/yaboyskinnyp 4d ago

I think this is a flawed view. We are all taught about the atrocities committed on the Native Americans. We don’t go into detail on how horrific it truly was, but we don’t deny it and attack those who bring it up like the CCP does

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u/Andrewbttm 4d ago

Almost everyone in the US knows about the Indian genocide

Almost nobody in China will acknowledge or even knows about Tiananmen Square

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u/FortyFiveSeventyGovt 4d ago

nah our history class was pretty thorough about us decimating the natives

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u/pmaurant 4d ago edited 4d ago

EVERY AMERICAN is taught about slavery and the middle passage. EVERY AMERICAN is taught about how the Native Americans were forced on Reservations. EVERY AMERICAN is taught about Jim Crow and lynch mobs. We just start learning about it in middle school not in Kindergarten.

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u/MayaIsSunshine 4d ago

Haha America bad ಠ_ʖಠ

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u/a_bit_of_byte 4d ago

This is a total false equivalence. You can learn anything you want about the US’s past. In China, that information is literally made unavailable for fear the people will see their government as flawed in any capacity

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u/Leomonade_For_Bears 4d ago

But American schools do teach about trail of tears and other similar atrocities we committed towards the natives. And you certainly won't get in trouble for discussing it. People need to pull their head out of their asses and stop making these huge leaps for the "hur dur murica bad" joke.

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u/supersanting 4d ago

In the USA, you can educate yourself about the atrocities committed against the Native Americans without the fear of ever going into jail. In China, you could end up in jail just trying to educate yourself about the Tiananmen Square massacre if you can find any materials at all.

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u/goat_8675309 4d ago

maybe my school is cool but we had units on native genocides and BLM

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u/Asymptote_X 4d ago

Yeah I remember celebrating Colombus when I was in fourth grade, but they clear that shit up real effectively by middle school.

Not really the same as a massive government cover up conspiracy, is it?

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u/STR1NG3R 4d ago

If you didn't hear about the small pox blankets, all the battles, and the trail of tears then you weren't paying any attention.

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u/bryroo 4d ago

I grew up in South Florida in the 80's and we learned extensively about the Trail of Tears and how shitty America was to the Native Americans.

I get that this is just another glib, gotcha America Reddit moment but anecdotally at least it's just taking the piss.

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u/MrMoosesHugs 4d ago

What god awful shitty schools did you people go to? Or did you not actually attempt to learn what was being taught because "you didn't like history?" I'd wager a fair amount of you fall into the second category.

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u/AND_THE_L0RD_SAID 4d ago

If our education system didn't constantly drill the injustices of our past into our heads, do you think there'd be something called "white guilt"? No. We all learn about this shit. Stupid tweet, stupid take. Low effort bullshit. Get idiots like this off of the internet.